Manchester United accused of ‘overpaying’ for Yoro and Wiegman to England claims dismissed

Editor F365 19 Jul 2024 9:53 AM

Leny Yoro was put under severe 'pressure' by Lille to move to Man Utd.

Leny Yoro has already been built up far too much, but at least Manchester United are acting more like Manchester City. And Sarina Wiegman is discussed.

Send your thoughts to theeditor@football365.com.

A quick message
Dear Simon CFC – thanks for writing your message into this morning’s mailbox. I can’t imagine it was fun or easy to write, but it was very important, so thank you.
Robert

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Who are we (white people) to say what is and what isn’t racist. If someone on the receiving end of racist songs is saying that it’s racist WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM, and not try and defend the white person.

Intent, character, previous whatever…. doesn’t matter. It was racist. End of. There is no place in the world for this type of carry on.
Culk the Younger

Given the conduct of English in footballing terms often faces a lot of criticism both globally and from within, can we just take a moment for balance to try and process how batsh*t mental it is that Argentinian players (not fans!) decided it was a good idea to disparagingly sing about the heritage and sexual preference of black French players – nearly all of whom were born in France – while celebrating their Copa America win. Aside from how unnecessary it was given the context, Argentina is a nation whose population is 97% part or fully European lineage. Disparaging French players born and living in France for claiming to be…French.

Then followed rapidly by Spanish players deciding it was a good idea to claim Gibraltar during their celebrations. A nation with absolutely no political desire to be Spanish, all while Spain continues to claim sovereignty over territories in Morocco and islands off west Africa, along with a deeply strained relationship with the independence seeking regions of Catalonia and the Basque Country.

The outpouring of defensive comments from supporters of these nations should be a good reminder to the English not to be too hard on themselves. Because they absolutely aren’t the only ones who at times parade a low IQ small mindedness which is ultimately embarrassing.
The Casual Observer

In for a Leny
For all those (including F365) calling the Leny Yoro signing a transfer coup, it might be worth managing expectations somewhat. Yes he could be promising but there is a complication called ‘Leny Yoro – disasterclass’ circulating on X that would make Harry Maguire blush.

Looks like another massive heap of cash wasted on someone just because they are at a Sir Jim club.
Dave , Winchester Spurs

Poor Leny Yoro, it should be every young players dream to play for Manchester United.

But the spotlight is shining so brightly on him it could quickly become a nightmare. Everyone now knows that Lille wanted him gone as Manchester United were overpaying and while troubling it isn’t the real issue.

It’s the ‘coup signing’ tag he is being assigned. He is a young player with bags of potential but the way he is being built up is that’s he’s Rio Ferdinand and Millie Bright’s lovechild.

He is a smart signing and will (hopefully) do very well. But can we give the lad some space and give him a chance to acclimatise.
Rob G (Still miss the afterthoughts)

Some thoughts on Yoro transfer;

Consider this: United refused to pay what Everton asked but they went ahead and paid over odds for Yoro; that will send a message. That United will no longer be held in ransom. Under previous system, they would chase Branthwaite all summer and finally pay 90 mil on deadline day,

But now instead now they have signed a possibly better option with higher ceiling and for the money they wanted to pay and nobody forced them to pay.

That is almost like what Man City does all the time. So when United make an offer for their next target this summer, the selling club will mind not to get cheeky because this is Manchester United. They can just move to another option just as easily as City.

Also, this kinda feels like a club purchase than Ten Hag purchase. We all know the first thing ETH checks is the Dutch connection, hence the links to De Ligt. But now the club decided that Yoro is far more important.

Even Zirkzee; Dutch he is but still, and as football365 itself wrote, he is the only young, cut price forward with a high ceiling available.

So I think, things are actually changing. And ETH can have little complaint after Antony! He just have to take it!
Karen Zevon

I am not sure (and don’t care) who Will Ford supports, but his article about Man Utd signing Leny Yoro being a coup was both baffling and amusing at the same time.

1) He has kicked a ball in anger for Man U yet, so how does he deduce that he will be a success? Given that he also give six examples of supposed Man U ‘coups’ that didn’t go so well, and that the only ‘coup’ that could be considered a success was RVP this seems odd. Bear in mind that transfer happened when Arsene Wenger was losing the plot and/or given up it is a great example.

2) Dan Ashworth gets two mentions in the article. Bearing in mind he only started his role on July 1st, how much influence has he had here? Unless Will is F365’s equivalent of Fabrizio Romano this is total speculation and frankly bollocks.

Regards,
A, LFC, Montreal

MORE ON YORO TO MANCHESTER UNITED FROM F365
👉 Leny Yoro and other top PL transfer targets it’s okay to admit you’ve never seen play
👉 Man Utd create new leader: 20 biggest transfers in the world in 2024 summer transfer window

Why not Wiegman? Well…
I’ve seen Weigman’s name mentioned a few times for the England job, usually from the kind of people who think they are being progressive and can shout at those Joey Barton types who don’t want women in men’s football. But isn’t it more misogynistic to suggest women’s football is inferior and moving to the men’s game would be a step up?

Let’s say she took the job, what message does that send? What if she failed, it would set the women’s game back decades. We would never hear the end of it from Barton and his incel followers.

Maybe she could do the job and maybe she could do it better than any man but it shouldn’t be a discussion right now. The women’s game is constantly improving but it’s still years behind. Their game will develop and to do that they need keep their best coaches, it’s not as if there’s a shortage of experienced male candidates for the job.
Rob, West Midlands

Lee’s email this morning about Sarina Wiegman got me thinking, why not her? So I thought I’d waste some work time analysing pros and cons.

Playing style: the biggest moan about Southgate was boring, slow defensive tactics. Now I’ve only watched a few Lioness games so happy to be proven wrong but the playing style seemed pretty similar, favouring defensive solidity over fluid attacking. In particular, England were outclassed technically by Spain in the world cup final which sounds familiar from somewhere….

She does have some thumping wins in her records, including a 20-0 victory over Latvia, but I would argue the difference between the best and rest is much larger in the woman’s game, and Southgate also managed England to some big wins against the minnows. I would argue there is not much of a difference in style.

Trophy track record: She has two world cup final appearances (both losses) and a wonderful euros win while managing senior teams. This is impressive and a better international record than other candidates, but if you also take club football into account I would argue Tuchel has an equally impressive CV. Her two final losses have a distinctly Southgate air to them as well.

Management style: Her teams seem to respect her and buy into her tactics. Whether some of the overgrown boys in the men’s team would listen to god forbid, a woman remains to be seen but I’m inclined to think that they would listen to instructions regardless of whom was giving it as long as it was delivered with clarity and charisma, which Wiegman has.

Overall I get a feeling she gives off slight Southgate vibes, I’m not convinced she would progress the team beyond his excellent tournament record or develop a significantly better playing style. Happy to be argued with on this though! And on a final note, Wiegman becoming the mens manager would wind up all the right people so much they might even emigrate, so thats another huge plus.

Here is a follow up question for the mailbox, aside from money, why on earth would she put herself through the stress of it?
Dave, South Wales

Genuine question here intended to maybe get someone with more knowledge than me on the case. Someone this morning gave a slight aside in their mail about there not being women’s and men’s tactics. I mean… surely there are? If you have two teams capable physically of different things, surely the tactics will be different? In fact, surely using men’s tactics for women or vice-versa is a terrible idea? Isn’t it? The women’s game and the men’s game are totally different.

I’d personally be fine with Wiegman. It’s 4 years until I have to care anyway, I’m sure we will draw Gibralter and Pat Butcher FC in the quallies (hate myself for calling them that). But implying she could copy and paste her tactics on top of a team with JB, Foden etc in is ludicrous.

Looking forward to the new series of Chelsea FC this season.
Stu AFC, Illinois

“I think they should just appoint Serena Wiegman. I mean, how about bringing in an England manager that’s actually won an international tournament, am I right?!”

“We just need to bring back Big Sam, or get ‘Arry Redknapp in. Make these players know what it means to play for the Three Lions, show some f**king pashun!”

That right there is the polar extremes of the England football fan continuum. Equal only in their unthinking stupidity.
Lewis, Busby Way

Really interesting gauntlet laid down by Lee in this morning’s mailbox. Suggesting that there’s no argument against appointing Wiegman which isn’t sexist is a bit facile though.

Taking any and all consideration of Wiegman’s sex out of the equation, you can make a robust argument against her by using a very simple assessment of the level of football she currently manages at. Because that’s where her experience to date doesn’t measure up to what the FA will look for when replacing Southgate.

Lee mentions identical coaching badges, manages at international level etc. He’s right of course, but football is a game of levels and any suggestion that the women’s national team plays to the same standard of football as the men’s team is doomed to failure.

By any metric (and numbers aren’t sexist obviously), elite women’s football is a distance behind the men’s game. Speed, physicality and fitness are the most obvious drivers of that. And when you amp up those factors, football is played at a higher pace and in a different way. It can’t not be.

When you’re able to do things faster and leverage more strength, the flexibility inherent in the game allows you to attack and defend differently. That naturally gives rise to different tactics to either accentuate that or negate it if you’re the opposition. So coaching high level men’s football is very different to a lot of what’s played in the levels below it.

It’s fairly well known that the US women’s team, widely regarded as the best in the world, regularly play practice matches against male youth sides in the US national setup. There are various stories of them winning/losing etc., but the key point is that those games are set up to test the team rather than allow them to spank weaker opposition 15-0.

And that’s where you get a better idea of the levels aligning themselves. By the age of 15-17, the physicality in the men’s game is already at a level where it can measure up to a senior women’s team.

Wiegman deserves huge credit for her performance in her role, it’s been spectacular. But in the cold light of day, Lee Carsley (same coaching badges) is currently in the international setup and coaching a team of a more comparable level to the men’s senior team.

Carsley in turn is behind a plethora of other names who have coached at a level higher than him, so the natural pecking order has been established. And Wiegman is miles down it, to the extent of not figuring in it, because she’s completely untested at a level that touches on that required for the job. You’ll note that Jonas Eidevall isn’t being considered either, for presumably exactly the same reasons.
Keith Reilly

Having seen a couple emails about England manager options, I felt a need to chime in, firstly in response to Lee about Wiegman.

The similarities on the job are now so similar to Southgate – a tournament success on home soil (the men were pens away) and another tournament of scrabbling through, playing dire football only to be outplayed by Spain in the final. She’s done a great job with the Women’s team, but there’s a sense of her time coming to an end, the football hasn’t exactly been swashbuckling (playing for 0-0 against Sweden to get qualified for the euros) as well as having many favourites who probably shouldn’t be in the squad/team. It’s all very Southgate, which is why I think she’d be the wrong pick, regardless of gender.

On Eddie Howe, I also think he’d be wrong, because he’s a great coach. You watch Howe’s Newcastle and it’s a team joined up by time on the coaching pitch. It took time to gel once he joined and it suffered a bit from European football meaning less time on the training pitch. He’s tactically very rigid and I worry that he’d not have the time with players to embed ideas, style etc.

A successful international manager needs to be a chess player, not a coach. And so delving in the pool of managers successful at club level may not give you the same success as they’ve had. The one who does stick out (who’s English), is Graham Potter – simply because of how much tactical flexibility he showed at Brighton, willing to shift the team shape and style around based on the opponent.

Outside of that, look at who does that bit well. Beg Carlo Ancelotti, or go after managers who have shown success at exactly the skill you’re after – international football management. Scouting which coaches have outperformed their national team’s expectations in recent years probably isn’t a bad start.

Failing that, Lee Carsley. It worked before (promoting u21), and we might actually get to see Anthony Gordon in an England shirt.
James, NUFC.

The only question to answer before Howe takes the England job
I’ve seen Eddie Howe’s name mentioned a lot as potentially the next England manager – and the man to possibly finally get them over the line in a big international tournament. There’s surely a very important question that needs to be answered first though – what would Jason Tindall do? Because if he stays with Howe and the time comes to climb a podium and shake hands with the King of Spain or FIFA President or whoever before picking up a trophy – I think it’s safe to say we all want to see how that goes down.
David Horgan, Dublin

Squad numbers
It still being pre-season, and the Euros are over, I am still assuming your content is still thin on the ground.

So I thought I would take the time to address an issue close to my heart and one that’s bothering me for a long time. The state of Manchester United’s squad numbers.

If you will allow me to do a bit of a tidy up, and Dan, Jim, Dave, Erik if you are reading this, take note.

1 Andre Onana (Currently 24)
24 is no number for the top dog in the goalie ranks at a major club. You are 1st choice, the main man, take number 1 and own it.

2 Diogo Dalot (Currently 20)
Big promotion for Ronaldo’s pal. He seems to have won out in the “fight” to be Utd starting RB, so therefore he should assume the number made famous by GNev, and less so Paul Parker.

3 Luke Shaw (Currently 23)
Similar to Dalot, he’s the starting LB when fit, so take the number and wear it with pride. You are not Michael Jordan.

4 Leny Yoro (New Entry)
Worn with distinct averageness by Sofyan Amrabat last year, Yoro is the man to take this number for the next 10 years (hopefully).

5 Harry Maguire (Currently 5)
No issue here, next

6 Lisandro Martinez (Currently 6)
Ditto

7 Kobbie Mainoo (Currently 37)
Is about to step up and take control of this team, after the Euros, the rest of Europe know how good he is now. The 7 is a storied number for United and Kobbie deserves it.

8 Bruno Fernandes (Currently 8)
Perfect. No notes.

9 Rasmus Hojlund (Currently 11)
11 is a ridiculous number for a centre forward. Martial leaving creates a vacancy that Hojlund can fill.

10 Marcus Rashford (Currently 10)
No issue here, moving on.

11 Alejandro Garnacho (Currently 17)
11 is another number made famous by Uniteds wide men, Garnacho being a wide man makes this make sense.

12 Tyrell Malacia (Currently 12)
Next

13 Tom Heaton (Currently 22)
Volleys and Brews. Lucky for some.

14 Christian Eriksen (Currently 14)
For now anyway

15 Victor Lindelof (Currently 2)
It’s the next available and he was the first to lose his so..

16 Casemiro (Currently 18)
Made famous by Roy Keane and Michael Carrick. Takes a big man to fill it. Amad is not that man. Casemiro is.

17Joshua Zirkzee (New Entry)
Zeventeen for Zirkzee. See.

18 Mason Mount (Currently 7)

19 Amad Diallo (Currently 16)